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Wow

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welcome to shattered reality with their

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hosts kate valentine and Farrugia

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prepare to head her paradigms shifted in

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the truth questioned and now shattered

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reality hi and welcome to shattered

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reality I am Kate Valentine and I am

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Farrugia how are you today dear

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listeners it's a beautiful autumn day

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and we have a wonderful guest today as

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well but before we introduce our guest

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we're here to say that we're going to be

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making an effort to come on the air a

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little bit more often we were on our

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summer schedules so we had like one

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podcast a month but now we're going to

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up the ante to at least two so with that

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said I also would like to mention that

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we are putting all our podcasts up on

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YouTube and so we're excited about that

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so that just gives you all another way

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to listen to shattered reality podcast

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and now I want to introduce a gentleman

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who is a multiple e published author his

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name is Ron felber and he has written a

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variety of different books previous to

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this the book that we're going to be

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talking about today is called the Mojave

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incident it's inspired by a chilling

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story of alien abduction now Ron are you

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there yes I am oh that's wonderful um I

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understand that you met the people who

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were abducted threw a friend out in

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California is that the case yeah as a

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matter of fact you know it's probably an

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interesting story and maybe to your

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listeners

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it's of interest because really the

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whole topic of alien abductions UFOs etc

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was not something I did I was CEO of at

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the time of a of an industrial chemical

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company and one of the people that work

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for me as a sales representative in

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California and I was in the New York

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area we got to be very good friend and

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over a drink one night knowing that I

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was writer and that I've been writing

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for many many years suggested I meet a

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friend of his that he went to college

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with and played college football with

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was an all-state football player and

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have had an alien abduction experience

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so when he mentioned that to me I said

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well you know I you know I do true life

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things i do nonfiction i do some

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suspense thrillers and things of that

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nature I really this just isn't what I

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do so he said this story is so

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unbelievable that I think you have to

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meet these people they don't want to

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tell it they really kept it inside them

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for for a long time but I think would be

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good for them and I think would be good

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for you if you met so neither one of us

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really had any great interest in doing

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this story then because to them it was

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like a dark dark secret that that they

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held inside you know like nuclear waste

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or something now this was nineteen

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eighty nine if I'm correct that's

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correct and so I met them and it was

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more than you know just a meeting I mean

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we spent a long period of time and I was

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so so blown away by the story itself and

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by the credibility of these people here

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were two college graduates young family

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young professionals two kids third one

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on the way the last thing in their life

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that they needed was an alien abduction

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story and it happened so often and

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you're quite right when you described it

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as unbelievable because when these

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events occur all

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everybody believes the people that

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relate them it is indeed unbelievable

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it's just so out of the ordinary and it

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you know just as the title of the show

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suggest it shatters your reality it

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really just is unbelievable and yet it

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happens and it happens to some people

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that are otherwise very nice and very

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normal and it's nice of you to have

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helped them through this situation well

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you know I actually not nice is correct

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of a nice guy but this story was so it

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in my face and at the end of this this

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was not a like oh you know if you look

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at a Betty and Barney Hill story from

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the 60s where you know okay I but

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Hopkins or whoever retrogressive them

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and they recapture experiences this was

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eight hours of two individuals in a

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conscious experience and then four hours

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that were recovered through

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retrogressive hypnosis later so this was

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more like like a show where like you're

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looking in the audience and somebody

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removes the curtain and all of a sudden

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you see a total alternate reality now

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Ron I'm going to skip slightly ahead I

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do what I would like you to recapitulate

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a little bit of the story but skipping

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just a moment ahead you did have to

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recognize people in the field of

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psychiatry examine this couple and one

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of them gave them a clean bill of mental

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health and the other one basically um

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did a this regression of the missing for

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hours correct that's correct as a matter

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of fact I could hire I'm a graduate of

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Georgetown University in Washington DC

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and one of the fellows I went to school

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with was a Barnard vittone who is now

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director of the net was then and is now

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a director of the National Center for

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psychiatric disorders in Washington DC

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the other doctor was William anixter who

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is from the mountains

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theatrics enter in Asheville North

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Carolina who worked a lot with the FBI

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to recapture traumatic experiences that

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were buried you know inside people let's

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say a terrorist attack or this or that

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something traumatic where they may have

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seen a face or whatever and so they

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retrogressed them to try to get them to

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recall you know the the setting so for

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evidential reasons so these were two you

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know very substantial people in their

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field serious professional sites say

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yeah and returned to the field really

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its own said highly unusual traumatizing

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events outside the realm of normal human

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experience anixter said the most

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compelling case of its kind I have ever

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encountered Wow and he's and he out his

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cases would involve war victims too

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exactly Wow no you gotta understand

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these are like guys with sloppy pants

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and brown shoes they're not you know

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these are very academic kind of people

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uh-huh so when a guy like William

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anixter says you know who's like a bland

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fellow jeez Mark of Athena a student of

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human nature what he says I say to him

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so what do you think happen here's you

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know I've examined all the possibilities

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drugs hallucinations of botulism you

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know peyote whatever it could have

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happened by mistake or on purpose or

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whatever you guys at the end of it my

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conclusion is that what they say happen

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to them is what happens wow that is that

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is intense do you want to just um give

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us a short us synopsis of the story so

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that people will be extremely interested

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in run right out and buy your book book

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is the Mojave incident of course by

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Felber it it goes into much greater

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detail I'm sure then what you're going

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to relate to us right now but this is 0

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this really is a chilling story it

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absolute I I mean I

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leave you i believe the book I it's hard

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to imagine that something like this

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could have happened to somebody you know

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I said when I first when I first heard

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it and I'm you know I'm a business guy

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that business guy chemist you my back

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background is not UFOs I promise hmm but

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at the end when you meet these people

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and when you see that petone said these

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are like POWs these were people that had

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sexual dysfunction these were people

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that had chronic insomnia these were

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like people that came back from Hanoi or

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something after being you know in a

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prisoner of war camp 34 for a number of

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months or years that were really

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dysfunctional and rattled to the court

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huh yeah well I a view before we're

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going to get right into your your

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recapitulation but um have you ever had

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any UFO experiences yourself like might

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it be something such as simple as seeing

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unexplained lights in the sky or any

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sort of paranormal experiences yourself

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Ron no I haven't and I right in a way

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you know particular I mean I guess

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everybody in an odd way says she I you

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say I wish it happen to me I love I'd

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love to experience something like that

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when you meet the people that really did

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not so much it's not that so much it's

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what they always say be careful what you

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wish for right there well it's one thing

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I think to see an unidentified flying

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object from a distance and say wow can't

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imagine what that is it's a

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saucer-shaped or its boomerang-shaped

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it's like nothing the US has it suits

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non-terrestrial or whatever and it's

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another thing to get the as Kate would

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say whooped up absolutely but I mean I

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was I was so impressed just with the the

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personalities of these people and and

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also the detail I don't think there's

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frankly ever been a book with the detail

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of what these aliens look like what they

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wanted why they were

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here these are answers that probably

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people have been looking for for a long

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long time and and it came out

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particularly in the hypnotic sessions

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where literally alleys different almost

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turned into another person and started

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spewing like a very specific answers of

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like a robot oh wow okay so what

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happened yeah what's this about yeah

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well so let me just be like a light as

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you say i'm hoping i can read maybe a

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little bit from the transcripts and

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things which i think would be of great

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interest sure just as a general story so

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here is a woman with a couple of kids

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you know you know a two-year-old a

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four-year-old she got another baby on

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the way just announced pregnancy so few

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months out of the house you know she

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went out of the house she's tired of

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children she wants to have a good time

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so her husband year before so I had it

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was a hundred and he had been out with

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his father and his brother in the Mojave

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Desert hunting and he missed a shot at a

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mule deer so brother's being brothers

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and fathers being fathers they gave him

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a relentless hard time about it for

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missing the shot for a year so he

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desperately wanted to back to the Mojave

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Desert hunt and tried to get a mule deer

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maybe that mule deer the meantime of

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course his wife says well that's just

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great you know I have these two children

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etc etc maybe maybe you're hunting isn't

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the most important thing so they

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compromise and the idea is that the

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parents will watch the children and the

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two of them will go to a it towards the

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from La Mirada California to the Mojave

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Desert but prior to that they'll go to a

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place called whiskey petes which is a

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sort of gambling place where is sort of

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a casino or they have a band and you can

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dance and have a couple drinks and

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whatnot so that was his concession and

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her concession was fine from there we'll

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go camping and you can do your hunting

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for a day and then we'll go back

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what happened was that they went to

271
00:13:31,689 --> 00:13:28,699
whiskey pizza as planned but when they

272
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:31,699
went to the mid Hills campground where

273
00:13:36,790 --> 00:13:34,130
they were supposed to stay for the night

274
00:13:40,420 --> 00:13:36,800
it was all booked up which is very

275
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:40,430
unusual so this guy understands Tom

276
00:13:44,019 --> 00:13:42,410
gifford understands the desert we've

277
00:13:47,470 --> 00:13:44,029
been honey there with his father and

278
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:47,480
when I and brothers for years he said

279
00:13:54,579 --> 00:13:51,410
look I know it's a it's dusk but let's

280
00:13:58,259 --> 00:13:54,589
go into the desert do a campfire we'll

281
00:14:00,790 --> 00:13:58,269
have a couple steaks the sky is

282
00:14:03,900 --> 00:14:00,800
unbelievable you know of course in the

283
00:14:07,780 --> 00:14:03,910
desert Milky Way as clear as it is and

284
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:07,790
and and we'll just camp out and they

285
00:14:13,389 --> 00:14:10,370
have a camper meaning a truck with a

286
00:14:14,949 --> 00:14:13,399
camper in the back and the idea was you

287
00:14:16,930 --> 00:14:14,959
know they could sleep there and do what

288
00:14:19,210 --> 00:14:16,940
they needed to do the next day his wife

289
00:14:23,499 --> 00:14:19,220
is really a good sport I mean I would

290
00:14:26,889 --> 00:14:23,509
have been back at whiskey to the said so

291
00:14:29,860 --> 00:14:26,899
so anyway they go and and all of that

292
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:29,870
happens but then while they're roasting

293
00:14:33,879 --> 00:14:31,250
marshmallows is one could imagine

294
00:14:37,540 --> 00:14:33,889
they're looking out into the horizon and

295
00:14:39,910 --> 00:14:37,550
and he's a easy you know fancies himself

296
00:14:42,129 --> 00:14:39,920
a sort of outdoorsmen and these are the

297
00:14:44,139 --> 00:14:42,139
different constellations and he point

298
00:14:46,420 --> 00:14:44,149
out to our goal and a double star and

299
00:14:49,179 --> 00:14:46,430
that's why it's so shiny and she says

300
00:14:52,230 --> 00:14:49,189
well that's a double star that must be a

301
00:14:58,499 --> 00:14:52,240
triple star look at how bright it is

302
00:15:03,220 --> 00:14:58,509
plain and from there it gets incredible

303
00:15:06,730 --> 00:15:03,230
incredible she says he says well maybe

304
00:15:08,980 --> 00:15:06,740
they're like weather balloons maybe

305
00:15:11,620 --> 00:15:08,990
they're you know to military exercise

306
00:15:15,490 --> 00:15:11,630
because he's seizing and then all of a

307
00:15:18,819 --> 00:15:15,500
sudden above the horizon nine of these

308
00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:18,829
things start forming the configuration

309
00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:22,730
of a huge em and blinking in coordinated

310
00:15:28,329 --> 00:15:25,850
patterns to one another huh so they talk

311
00:15:30,550 --> 00:15:28,339
about a military exercise and of course

312
00:15:32,319 --> 00:15:30,560
it's pretty chilling anyway because

313
00:15:34,870 --> 00:15:32,329
she's kind of in the back of her mind

314
00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:34,880
well you know hells angels come here

315
00:15:39,410 --> 00:15:37,110
with drugs and who knows

316
00:15:43,759 --> 00:15:39,420
we're by ourselves you know this is a

317
00:15:46,550 --> 00:15:43,769
daunting ya think anyway so he's talking

318
00:15:49,069 --> 00:15:46,560
about military exercises and it's not

319
00:15:51,410 --> 00:15:49,079
going over very well then all of a

320
00:15:53,930 --> 00:15:51,420
sudden now they start dropping to the

321
00:15:57,259 --> 00:15:53,940
ground but Wendy's lights to these

322
00:16:01,069 --> 00:15:57,269
lights do but now there's not nine of

323
00:16:03,710 --> 00:16:01,079
them there's hundreds of them they

324
00:16:07,250 --> 00:16:03,720
started dropping to the ground and was a

325
00:16:09,740 --> 00:16:07,260
great quote from mom from her that uh

326
00:16:11,930 --> 00:16:09,750
that I think bears mentioning when we

327
00:16:13,130 --> 00:16:11,940
first saw them dropping from the sky we

328
00:16:15,829 --> 00:16:13,140
thought it was some kind of military

329
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:15,839
maneuver maybe for Operation Desert

330
00:16:20,810 --> 00:16:18,450
Storm but it was too massive even for

331
00:16:23,870 --> 00:16:20,820
that I mean there were thousands of them

332
00:16:26,210 --> 00:16:23,880
falling then rushing towards us class oh

333
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:26,220
I kicked out the campfire grabbed my gun

334
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:28,410
and ran into the back of the camper with

335
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:30,890
the least then we SAT there indian-style

336
00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:33,810
until they came thousands of them

337
00:16:42,130 --> 00:16:36,720
thousands of pairs of tiny red eyes

338
00:16:45,019 --> 00:16:42,140
glowing in the dark around us that is

339
00:16:46,519 --> 00:16:45,029
very frightening out but honestly if

340
00:16:49,009 --> 00:16:46,529
Russia you know you and I have really

341
00:16:52,519 --> 00:16:49,019
gotten into a lot of UFO stories this is

342
00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:52,529
very unique the number is unit the

343
00:16:58,939 --> 00:16:56,730
number of yeah what is very unique so it

344
00:17:01,009 --> 00:16:58,949
almost sounds like that was in the North

345
00:17:03,050 --> 00:17:01,019
Carolina where some place where the

346
00:17:05,270 --> 00:17:03,060
family was in and then they were

347
00:17:08,030 --> 00:17:05,280
crawling all over the roof remember that

348
00:17:10,220 --> 00:17:08,040
yeah there was at Tennessee some

349
00:17:12,770 --> 00:17:10,230
somewhere in the south of us here in

350
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:12,780
Appalachia but it I don't think it is

351
00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:16,410
that far way geographically from the

352
00:17:24,260 --> 00:17:20,329
Travis Walton abductions guys right

353
00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:24,270
geographically it's not that far away

354
00:17:31,220 --> 00:17:27,600
from northern Arizona am i right oh yeah

355
00:17:33,020 --> 00:17:31,230
actually you know this is so strange but

356
00:17:36,260 --> 00:17:33,030
you know as I say I can get into some

357
00:17:40,180 --> 00:17:36,270
very very detailed descriptions of the

358
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:40,190
aliens etc and what occurred but

359
00:17:44,419 --> 00:17:42,690
actually after I interviewed them and

360
00:17:46,610 --> 00:17:44,429
spend a lot of time with them I just

361
00:17:48,290 --> 00:17:46,620
sort of browsing around in a library one

362
00:17:49,700 --> 00:17:48,300
day literally

363
00:17:51,290 --> 00:17:49,710
you know I was looking for other things

364
00:17:53,570 --> 00:17:51,300
maybe even waiting for somebody and

365
00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:53,580
there was a book about like wonders of

366
00:18:00,080 --> 00:17:56,850
the world and one of them was the Mojave

367
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:00,090
twins and the petroglyphs first of all

368
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:02,010
the Mojave twins that are that are drawn

369
00:18:07,580 --> 00:18:04,170
on the ground great okay and then in the

370
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:07,590
caves huh and those drawings which were

371
00:18:13,700 --> 00:18:11,130
probably a thousand years old were

372
00:18:17,540 --> 00:18:13,710
identical to the descriptions of what

373
00:18:21,230 --> 00:18:17,550
the giffords described roof why don't

374
00:18:25,730 --> 00:18:21,240
have a map in front of me but um I know

375
00:18:30,530 --> 00:18:25,740
that Travis Walton was abducted in front

376
00:18:34,670 --> 00:18:30,540
of his work working comrades there about

377
00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:34,680
in Arizona northern Arizona probably not

378
00:18:40,700 --> 00:18:38,130
tremendously far from Flagstaff and I'm

379
00:18:44,210 --> 00:18:40,710
just thinking that's not tremendously

380
00:18:47,180 --> 00:18:44,220
far from from the Mojave Desert either

381
00:18:49,340 --> 00:18:47,190
but I wish I had a I was like one from

382
00:18:51,410 --> 00:18:49,350
what he describes one blue light one

383
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:51,420
vehicle right one via good this isn't

384
00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:54,690
like that no no no massive this is like

385
00:19:00,410 --> 00:18:57,450
incredible so they they are literally

386
00:19:02,330 --> 00:19:00,420
pinching themselves yeah they may be our

387
00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:02,340
first wants to fight these things uh-huh

388
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:05,370
he has a Browning shotgun and a

389
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:07,890
Remington burr he's ready to it and

390
00:19:13,970 --> 00:19:10,410
there's a telepathic message that his

391
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:13,980
wife gets tied him to eventually get in

392
00:19:19,910 --> 00:19:15,930
the back of the camper if you try to

393
00:19:21,650 --> 00:19:19,920
hurt us will kill you huh so here I

394
00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:21,660
would maybe like to read one thing about

395
00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:24,480
the craft itself sure gather they held

396
00:19:31,430 --> 00:19:27,090
one another sobbing as the gremlins

397
00:19:33,950 --> 00:19:31,440
these sort of like like monkey like

398
00:19:36,890 --> 00:19:33,960
beings malevolent frolic with reckless

399
00:19:38,780 --> 00:19:36,900
abandon seemingly stimulated by the wild

400
00:19:42,170 --> 00:19:38,790
rhythms of their elevated heartbeats

401
00:19:44,690 --> 00:19:42,180
pounding then Tom turned rigid what is

402
00:19:46,310 --> 00:19:44,700
it she asked what's wrong she looked up

403
00:19:48,830 --> 00:19:46,320
to him he stared over his shoulder

404
00:19:51,140 --> 00:19:48,840
wordlessly his eyes glistening were

405
00:19:53,930 --> 00:19:51,150
fixed in days are you all right she

406
00:19:57,650 --> 00:19:53,940
fretted turning her head to see it the

407
00:20:00,410 --> 00:19:57,660
spacecraft you descending from out of a

408
00:20:01,910 --> 00:20:00,420
dense cloud the object literally capped

409
00:20:03,740 --> 00:20:01,920
the valley

410
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:03,750
and stop hovering perhaps a hundred

411
00:20:08,180 --> 00:20:06,450
yards above the desert floor the craft

412
00:20:10,940 --> 00:20:08,190
was larger than anything they ever

413
00:20:13,940 --> 00:20:10,950
imagined could fly more than a football

414
00:20:16,190 --> 00:20:13,950
field in diameter and shaped like a disc

415
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:16,200
with an elevated dome that rose up from

416
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:18,810
its center it was encircled by brilliant

417
00:20:22,730 --> 00:20:20,730
white lights flashing and what appeared

418
00:20:25,550 --> 00:20:22,740
to be coordinated coated rhythms

419
00:20:28,460 --> 00:20:25,560
together they watched in awe stunned as

420
00:20:30,350 --> 00:20:28,470
the huge craft shot of pro perhaps two

421
00:20:33,260 --> 00:20:30,360
hundred feet in diameter down to the

422
00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:33,270
ground then began transporting objects

423
00:20:38,900 --> 00:20:36,480
both into it out of the spacecraft from

424
00:20:40,940 --> 00:20:38,910
the discs underbelly hung six smaller

425
00:20:43,460 --> 00:20:40,950
units the size of helicopters and

426
00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:43,470
designed like miniature versions of the

427
00:20:47,990 --> 00:20:45,510
mother craft that suddenly became

428
00:20:49,850 --> 00:20:48,000
visible all of this was happening right

429
00:20:52,850 --> 00:20:49,860
before their eyes and it was

430
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:52,860
overwhelming they actually start

431
00:20:58,040 --> 00:20:55,410
pinching themselves and say what do you

432
00:21:01,760 --> 00:20:58,050
see pinch me just proved to me that I'm

433
00:21:04,190 --> 00:21:01,770
really here what do you see and they go

434
00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:04,200
back and forth describing detail by

435
00:21:12,980 --> 00:21:08,910
detail what each of them see this is an

436
00:21:17,660 --> 00:21:12,990
amazing account and a do we want to get

437
00:21:19,700 --> 00:21:17,670
to you know to the part where they do we

438
00:21:21,770 --> 00:21:19,710
want to move on with this account as so

439
00:21:23,870 --> 00:21:21,780
we can when you're through we can ask

440
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:23,880
you some questions about the story

441
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:27,170
basically yeah whatever whatever you lie

442
00:21:33,230 --> 00:21:31,650
so what happened read I mean so okay so

443
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:33,240
they're sitting in the back of the

444
00:21:38,060 --> 00:21:35,490
camper they've got thousands of these

445
00:21:40,430 --> 00:21:38,070
little Mel Evelyn monkeys hanging around

446
00:21:42,350 --> 00:21:40,440
them and then suddenly and by and by the

447
00:21:47,630 --> 00:21:42,360
way uh-huh they're blocked in by two

448
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:47,640
sort of electrical fields Oh tries to

449
00:21:53,570 --> 00:21:50,610
move forward Oh all that is jolted

450
00:21:57,260 --> 00:21:53,580
backwards so it moves forward they move

451
00:21:58,970 --> 00:21:57,270
forward oh do you think they were picked

452
00:22:00,590 --> 00:21:58,980
out because they were alone or do you

453
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:00,600
think that this thing was going why you

454
00:22:04,730 --> 00:22:02,610
don't know of course I'm sorry but um

455
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:04,740
alright so they're out there and they're

456
00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:08,010
oh wow and you're surrounded by these

457
00:22:12,500 --> 00:22:10,110
beings and and then they begin to

458
00:22:13,670 --> 00:22:12,510
harvest their emotions they feel I mean

459
00:22:17,210 --> 00:22:13,680
that's solutely it

460
00:22:18,650 --> 00:22:17,220
time in the meantime there is a that

461
00:22:20,900 --> 00:22:18,660
they call a searcher I mean this is

462
00:22:23,300 --> 00:22:20,910
something they made up uh-huh and she

463
00:22:25,340 --> 00:22:23,310
says yes there's a triangle of light

464
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:25,350
with the tip of the triangle touching

465
00:22:29,420 --> 00:22:27,330
down on the ground it seems to be

466
00:22:31,580 --> 00:22:29,430
combing the ground beneath the disk as

467
00:22:34,340 --> 00:22:31,590
if searching for something do you hear

468
00:22:36,980 --> 00:22:34,350
the rumblings deep inside the ground the

469
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:36,990
triangles like a drill a huge drill of

470
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:39,330
some kind it was then they became aware

471
00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:41,850
of the smell or rank chemical odor like

472
00:22:48,020 --> 00:22:44,130
phosphorous or burning rubber it was

473
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:48,030
sulfur so basically so if you can

474
00:22:52,580 --> 00:22:49,890
imagine these things are frolicking

475
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:52,590
around they're held in the back of this

476
00:23:00,010 --> 00:22:56,250
camper this huge craft is above them in

477
00:23:03,410 --> 00:23:00,020
the meantime another triangular cramp is

478
00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:03,420
mining it seems minerals in you know

479
00:23:11,270 --> 00:23:06,960
from the earth and that's when we these

480
00:23:15,140 --> 00:23:11,280
illuminated beings start to hover around

481
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:15,150
them and and this is uh this is this is

482
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:19,410
really the crux of things Tom knew

483
00:23:24,170 --> 00:23:21,690
immediately that these were the ones

484
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:24,180
responsible for the telepathic messages

485
00:23:29,420 --> 00:23:26,850
they arrived in a group of nine circling

486
00:23:31,670 --> 00:23:29,430
the camper staring in the windows of its

487
00:23:35,060 --> 00:23:31,680
shell-like spectators observing animals

488
00:23:37,370 --> 00:23:35,070
in the zoo taller than the others they

489
00:23:39,470 --> 00:23:37,380
stood perhaps five feet in height with

490
00:23:42,260 --> 00:23:39,480
enormous raven black eyes and long

491
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:42,270
spindly appendages connected to an

492
00:23:48,670 --> 00:23:44,370
underdeveloped torso the size of a

493
00:23:51,710 --> 00:23:48,680
three-year-old child and from there on

494
00:23:55,690 --> 00:23:51,720
basically what happens is their foot

495
00:23:59,090 --> 00:23:55,700
through an incredible series of mental

496
00:24:03,790 --> 00:23:59,100
exercises where and I don't want to get

497
00:24:07,430 --> 00:24:03,800
into this too in much detail but the

498
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:07,440
leaves gifford it had a been sexually

499
00:24:13,220 --> 00:24:10,050
molested as a child and so that

500
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:13,230
experience she was made to relive moment

501
00:24:21,140 --> 00:24:17,250
to moment ha and and she described it as

502
00:24:25,940 --> 00:24:21,150
like a syringe so he was made to relive

503
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:25,950
exalting moment happy moment horrifying

504
00:24:30,100 --> 00:24:26,690
moment

505
00:24:33,730 --> 00:24:30,110
and she said it was like they put a

506
00:24:35,980 --> 00:24:33,740
syringe in their head they actually were

507
00:24:38,410 --> 00:24:35,990
reliving these things it wasn't memories

508
00:24:41,050 --> 00:24:38,420
they were actually reliving it and these

509
00:24:44,770 --> 00:24:41,060
beings were taking like with a syringe

510
00:24:47,230 --> 00:24:44,780
the the essence of their emotions to see

511
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:47,240
how they reacted to things to put them

512
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:50,330
through these gymnastics and and

513
00:24:57,430 --> 00:24:53,930
understand how human minds work this

514
00:25:02,050 --> 00:24:57,440
this is not this part particularly is

515
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:02,060
not unprecedented in both spiritual and

516
00:25:13,660 --> 00:25:07,610
UFO studies I the harvesting of emotions

517
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:13,670
by beings that either are regularly seen

518
00:25:19,450 --> 00:25:16,490
greys so-called Grey's or in this case

519
00:25:22,660 --> 00:25:19,460
similar sorts of beings or in a

520
00:25:26,170 --> 00:25:22,670
spiritual out-of-body State that there

521
00:25:28,150 --> 00:25:26,180
are sometimes beings harvesting the

522
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:28,160
emotions and I'm not sure if you're

523
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:31,810
familiar with the monroe institute in in

524
00:25:40,180 --> 00:25:36,530
outside of Charlottesville Virginia but

525
00:25:42,940 --> 00:25:40,190
the founder Robert Monroe writes up in

526
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:42,950
his a book for journeys which I believe

527
00:25:49,180 --> 00:25:46,090
is the last of his three books about his

528
00:25:52,780 --> 00:25:49,190
out-of-body experiences where he finds

529
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:52,790
that there are entities that well

530
00:25:57,940 --> 00:25:55,730
outside of the atmosphere of the earth

531
00:25:59,620 --> 00:25:57,950
let us say but he doesn't know where

532
00:26:02,950 --> 00:25:59,630
they come from but they're like

533
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:02,960
surrounding the earth in in whatever

534
00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:06,610
whether these are physical ships or a

535
00:26:14,050 --> 00:26:10,130
metaphysical craft and they are

536
00:26:17,110 --> 00:26:14,060
harvesting emotions and he has a name

537
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:17,120
for this which is called luchshe L oh oh

538
00:26:23,620 --> 00:26:20,090
Sh and I wondered if you had ever heard

539
00:26:26,770 --> 00:26:23,630
of that no no I haven't but you know III

540
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:26,780
see where he's coming from because this

541
00:26:32,980 --> 00:26:30,770
may fit that paradigm because really if

542
00:26:35,470 --> 00:26:32,990
you look at what they experience and

543
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:35,480
maybe if I can read again I'm sorry sure

544
00:26:38,830 --> 00:26:38,450
please do please still here now clearly

545
00:26:41,230 --> 00:26:38,840
there

546
00:26:43,510 --> 00:26:41,240
seemed in order to this realm of

547
00:26:46,300 --> 00:26:43,520
existence that it's so suddenly and

548
00:26:49,330 --> 00:26:46,310
pervasively enveloped them the gremlin

549
00:26:51,190 --> 00:26:49,340
so crude and frenetic the shortstop like

550
00:26:53,250 --> 00:26:51,200
Grace who monitored them and kept them

551
00:26:56,020 --> 00:26:53,260
in the craft the more intelligent

552
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:56,030
scientific figures and really what

553
00:26:59,710 --> 00:26:57,530
happened when they were on the verge of

554
00:27:01,960 --> 00:26:59,720
heart attacks a kind of missed would

555
00:27:05,230 --> 00:27:01,970
fill the back of the camper that would

556
00:27:07,990 --> 00:27:05,240
calm them so it would be like anesthesia

557
00:27:11,410 --> 00:27:08,000
so it would calm them so they wouldn't

558
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:11,420
die but when things get so out of hand

559
00:27:16,870 --> 00:27:14,690
like so chaotic where they're screaming

560
00:27:19,060 --> 00:27:16,880
both of them screaming in the back of

561
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:19,070
the camper wanting to die they think

562
00:27:24,670 --> 00:27:21,890
they're in Hell a kind of presence comes

563
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:24,680
an angelic almost like a Marian

564
00:27:32,770 --> 00:27:28,810
visitation yet feminine for sure and

565
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:32,780
says don't worry don't worry this won't

566
00:27:38,950 --> 00:27:36,170
go on forever this is an experience it's

567
00:27:42,580 --> 00:27:38,960
not it will not go on forever and things

568
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:42,590
took camp down from there and the she

569
00:27:52,570 --> 00:27:46,690
presents gentle powerful in nature a

570
00:27:56,740 --> 00:27:52,580
realm of existence not a not a exposure

571
00:27:58,720 --> 00:27:56,750
to one kind of existence they call they

572
00:28:00,400 --> 00:27:58,730
they described her of being that in

573
00:28:03,550 --> 00:28:00,410
other times may have been called an

574
00:28:06,250 --> 00:28:03,560
angel she was radiant exquisite in

575
00:28:08,950 --> 00:28:06,260
appearance in nature her lucid rope

576
00:28:11,950 --> 00:28:08,960
flowing as she floated gracefully toward

577
00:28:17,010 --> 00:28:11,960
them it's all right I'm here now to

578
00:28:21,070 --> 00:28:17,020
protect you be at peace it's almost over

579
00:28:24,610 --> 00:28:21,080
wow I feel figure what it seems to me as

580
00:28:28,870 --> 00:28:24,620
though there are a lot of clues here it

581
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:28,880
seems to me that um just like comparing

582
00:28:34,030 --> 00:28:31,970
this is an unique I am NOT saying it is

583
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:34,040
not a unique sighting but comparing in

584
00:28:41,380 --> 00:28:39,050
certain places where there are things

585
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:41,390
that can you know have a congruence with

586
00:28:47,950 --> 00:28:45,050
other UFO incidences there was a

587
00:28:52,330 --> 00:28:47,960
gentleman I Kate I'm not sure you

588
00:28:52,780 --> 00:28:52,340
remember in the south of the south of

589
00:28:55,990 --> 00:28:52,790
calif

590
00:28:58,120 --> 00:28:56,000
fornia who was up a tree for a long time

591
00:29:03,310 --> 00:28:58,130
and the beings were all around him up a

592
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:03,320
tree and they did also exuse a substance

593
00:29:08,260 --> 00:29:05,690
to you know sort of knock him out

594
00:29:09,910 --> 00:29:08,270
temporarily but he clung on to the tree

595
00:29:12,250 --> 00:29:09,920
so they they couldn't get up the tree

596
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:12,260
for whatever reason to get him but this

597
00:29:18,910 --> 00:29:16,970
is a also a quite a well documented case

598
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:18,920
because this fellow was in the forest

599
00:29:24,070 --> 00:29:22,010
and other people were looking for him I

600
00:29:26,530 --> 00:29:24,080
wish I could think of the gentleman's

601
00:29:30,070 --> 00:29:26,540
name but it is it is well known case in

602
00:29:32,380 --> 00:29:30,080
ufology where a a mist and I and if

603
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:32,390
memory serves me correctly it was a

604
00:29:39,220 --> 00:29:36,650
green mist the other thing is that the

605
00:29:40,750 --> 00:29:39,230
others we can call them aliens we can

606
00:29:43,690 --> 00:29:40,760
call them others we can call them

607
00:29:46,060 --> 00:29:43,700
entities are known to lie they also

608
00:29:49,870 --> 00:29:46,070
control they seem to control the

609
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:49,880
subjects brains so that while you know

610
00:29:54,460 --> 00:29:52,730
one minute you might see one thing that

611
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:54,470
is terrifying in the next minute you

612
00:29:59,170 --> 00:29:57,290
might see this angelic presence now I'm

613
00:30:01,480 --> 00:29:59,180
not saying the angelic presence wasn't

614
00:30:03,490 --> 00:30:01,490
real but I'm not saying it was real

615
00:30:07,780 --> 00:30:03,500
either I'm saying it could be a way to

616
00:30:11,950 --> 00:30:07,790
evoke emotion yes yes yes indeed i would

617
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:11,960
agree and um what this comes up to one

618
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:13,730
of my questions that i was going to ask

619
00:30:21,010 --> 00:30:17,810
later on in the in the interview with

620
00:30:24,310 --> 00:30:21,020
you Ron but um the idea of good and bad

621
00:30:28,420 --> 00:30:24,320
seems to bounce around within this

622
00:30:31,210 --> 00:30:28,430
couples mental state they just tried to

623
00:30:34,510 --> 00:30:31,220
decide if it's a good situation or a bad

624
00:30:36,670 --> 00:30:34,520
situation and and my thought on that was

625
00:30:38,100 --> 00:30:36,680
why would it have to be either let's

626
00:30:40,810 --> 00:30:38,110
just take the extra-terrestrial

627
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:40,820
hypothesis for a second that these are

628
00:30:45,610 --> 00:30:43,370
extraterrestrial beings or even if there

629
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:45,620
are interdimensional beings it doesn't

630
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:47,690
really make much difference but who's to

631
00:30:53,770 --> 00:30:50,090
say they're good or bad because from the

632
00:30:56,050 --> 00:30:53,780
point of view of the dairy cat cow we're

633
00:30:59,200 --> 00:30:56,060
bad you know from the point of view of

634
00:31:02,470 --> 00:30:59,210
the the animal put up the slaughter

635
00:31:06,610 --> 00:31:02,480
we're a bad species but from our point

636
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:06,620
of view its food so good or bad maine

637
00:31:11,940 --> 00:31:09,410
not in fact even come it's it's it may

638
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:11,950
not come into the equation it's a

639
00:31:18,730 --> 00:31:16,850
judgment it's a yeah and they are alien

640
00:31:20,799 --> 00:31:18,740
and who's to say that they think like us

641
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:20,809
right it's not it's neither good nor bad

642
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:23,690
Mike my guess is it's just messes

643
00:31:28,060 --> 00:31:26,090
tomorrow's may have evolved completely

644
00:31:30,220 --> 00:31:28,070
different or if they have any moral so

645
00:31:32,590 --> 00:31:30,230
what we call morals yeah right it

646
00:31:34,270 --> 00:31:32,600
doesn't it doesn't follow that it still

647
00:31:37,570 --> 00:31:34,280
they realize they were scaring the crap

648
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:37,580
out of these day and we realize when we

649
00:31:43,510 --> 00:31:40,130
sit down to our hamburger oh that we're

650
00:31:46,390 --> 00:31:43,520
eating another being right right so they

651
00:31:48,460 --> 00:31:46,400
look down on us like we look at ants

652
00:31:49,630 --> 00:31:48,470
yeah but it's it's like a little bit

653
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:49,640
different thing we don't try to

654
00:31:53,919 --> 00:31:52,250
communicate with the cows and uh you

655
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:53,929
know they just led to slaughter no one's

656
00:31:58,299 --> 00:31:55,730
trying to say you know it's going to be

657
00:32:01,570 --> 00:31:58,309
okay bossy punk all right maybe it

658
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:01,580
wasn't next well you know I I just

659
00:32:08,830 --> 00:32:06,770
usually doctor I think that they're it

660
00:32:10,750 --> 00:32:08,840
you know there was a book by Nigel

661
00:32:12,850 --> 00:32:10,760
Kerner to get into that where he felt

662
00:32:15,010 --> 00:32:12,860
that the purpose of these was to harvest

663
00:32:18,430 --> 00:32:15,020
souls and souls are just like a

664
00:32:21,549 --> 00:32:18,440
reflection of a life experience and a

665
00:32:24,660 --> 00:32:21,559
lot of people suggest that these aliens

666
00:32:27,190 --> 00:32:24,670
are actually robotic beings androids and

667
00:32:29,380 --> 00:32:27,200
although they are full of knowledge

668
00:32:32,169 --> 00:32:29,390
they're not full of emotion and they

669
00:32:34,419 --> 00:32:32,179
realize that and they try to experience

670
00:32:37,150 --> 00:32:34,429
it and so they experience it by evoking

671
00:32:39,460 --> 00:32:37,160
emotions in humans but you know again

672
00:32:42,070 --> 00:32:39,470
that's that's a serie and now that's an

673
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:42,080
astral morphix theory and who knows yeah

674
00:32:46,180 --> 00:32:43,490
we're just throwing out a few you know

675
00:32:48,220 --> 00:32:46,190
it really annoys me what is that they'll

676
00:32:49,570 --> 00:32:48,230
scare that crap out of you and then

677
00:32:51,100 --> 00:32:49,580
they'll disappear and they'll say well

678
00:32:53,890 --> 00:32:51,110
who are you where'd you come from what

679
00:32:56,140 --> 00:32:53,900
you do and sorry not telling you that

680
00:32:58,390 --> 00:32:56,150
and then they go away I mean come on

681
00:33:00,160 --> 00:32:58,400
it's ticklish the crap out of me at

682
00:33:02,919 --> 00:33:00,170
least let me you know something i am a

683
00:33:05,380 --> 00:33:02,929
hypnotic a session yeah there's there's

684
00:33:09,340 --> 00:33:05,390
some some some things just about that oh

685
00:33:11,950 --> 00:33:09,350
good what dr. anna at anixter accepted

686
00:33:14,620 --> 00:33:11,960
the ant oh he turned into seat orderlies

687
00:33:16,750 --> 00:33:14,630
who said her body lacks help tilted to

688
00:33:18,610 --> 00:33:16,760
one side lying on the right shoulder at

689
00:33:20,470 --> 00:33:18,620
least you have any idea what these beams

690
00:33:23,430 --> 00:33:20,480
want or why

691
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:23,440
here it was macabre watching Ali's

692
00:33:28,510 --> 00:33:26,090
spring up in the chair suddenly animated

693
00:33:30,580 --> 00:33:28,520
and alert her voice rather than soft and

694
00:33:32,799 --> 00:33:30,590
emotional took on a new cadence huh

695
00:33:35,020 --> 00:33:32,809
which was clicked and direct quite

696
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:35,030
unlike her they want to make contact

697
00:33:39,970 --> 00:33:37,250
with the population Tom and I are

698
00:33:42,370 --> 00:33:39,980
specimens imperfect like the human race

699
00:33:44,620 --> 00:33:42,380
when we're ready to communicate with

700
00:33:47,140 --> 00:33:44,630
them face-to-face then possibly the

701
00:33:49,330 --> 00:33:47,150
world will be two for action such as

702
00:33:51,970 --> 00:33:49,340
edging forward in her chair at the

703
00:33:54,070 --> 00:33:51,980
moment see mechanical as did a voice as

704
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:54,080
she continued they have to study our

705
00:33:59,770 --> 00:33:56,690
reactions so they know how to approach

706
00:34:01,900 --> 00:33:59,780
us they don't have emotions like ours so

707
00:34:04,630 --> 00:34:01,910
they need us to teach them they need to

708
00:34:07,180 --> 00:34:04,640
understand humans do you have any sense

709
00:34:10,720 --> 00:34:07,190
as to who they are and where they come

710
00:34:13,180 --> 00:34:10,730
from there are five galaxies there's is

711
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:13,190
the next closest in order for all five

712
00:34:17,649 --> 00:34:15,770
galaxies to work together one day they

713
00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:17,659
have to start and they're starting with

714
00:34:24,250 --> 00:34:21,649
us so we'll be united galaxies what else

715
00:34:26,530 --> 00:34:24,260
do you know anixter asked feeling as if

716
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:26,540
he was in contact with someone other

717
00:34:31,750 --> 00:34:28,970
than a leads I know where the universe

718
00:34:34,270 --> 00:34:31,760
ends she said rattling the words off

719
00:34:36,820 --> 00:34:34,280
staccato is that something you can put

720
00:34:39,669 --> 00:34:36,830
into words now there was no denying

721
00:34:43,149 --> 00:34:39,679
something incredible was happening our

722
00:34:46,330 --> 00:34:43,159
universe ends where there's begins our

723
00:34:49,030 --> 00:34:46,340
universe ends when all its matter stops

724
00:34:51,849 --> 00:34:49,040
mattering to us and starts mattering to

725
00:34:54,190 --> 00:34:51,859
them everyone in the room looked to one

726
00:34:57,190 --> 00:34:54,200
another's stunned at what they heard and

727
00:34:58,720 --> 00:34:57,200
what they were seeing for sitting on the

728
00:35:01,810 --> 00:34:58,730
edge of the out-of-date cushion

729
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:01,820
armchairs at oles gifford her body rigid

730
00:35:08,859 --> 00:35:04,970
and vibrating with energy well that is

731
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:08,869
that you know having read the book some

732
00:35:17,349 --> 00:35:13,490
places more than once I I have to say

733
00:35:19,690 --> 00:35:17,359
that that phrase that phrase did did

734
00:35:24,370 --> 00:35:19,700
arrest me I did find that very very

735
00:35:29,050 --> 00:35:24,380
arresting that brings up two things to

736
00:35:31,810 --> 00:35:29,060
me that brings up the part about the

737
00:35:34,270 --> 00:35:31,820
others who entities aliens whatever

738
00:35:37,510 --> 00:35:34,280
being Liars number one

739
00:35:40,090 --> 00:35:37,520
or be it brings up to me the david

740
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:40,100
jacobs scenario i don't know if you are

741
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:43,010
familiar with david jacobs but he was a

742
00:35:50,110 --> 00:35:46,970
he is a colleague of the late um but

743
00:35:52,450 --> 00:35:50,120
Hopkins budd hopkins and he has written

744
00:35:55,900 --> 00:35:52,460
a number of books on what he believes

745
00:36:01,110 --> 00:35:55,910
the quote unquote alien agenda is which

746
00:36:05,470 --> 00:36:01,120
is to infiltrate human society creating

747
00:36:09,190 --> 00:36:05,480
hybrids who will then live amongst us I

748
00:36:11,710 --> 00:36:09,200
neither agree nor disagree with dr.

749
00:36:14,500 --> 00:36:11,720
Jacobs I know that he has basically

750
00:36:17,710 --> 00:36:14,510
spent his life at this work and so I

751
00:36:19,240 --> 00:36:17,720
have to defer to him on a certain to a

752
00:36:25,020 --> 00:36:19,250
certain extent because I have not

753
00:36:29,290 --> 00:36:25,030
devoted my life to hypnotizing alien

754
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:29,300
abductees though I am a an experiencer

755
00:36:34,450 --> 00:36:32,690
if not an abductee myself so I look at

756
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:34,460
all these things that's why we're here

757
00:36:39,100 --> 00:36:36,530
the three of us here are all

758
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:39,110
experiencers so from that point of view

759
00:36:44,230 --> 00:36:42,410
you this this interview and may be

760
00:36:46,060 --> 00:36:44,240
mistaken but this interview maybe a

761
00:36:47,830 --> 00:36:46,070
little bit different than some of the

762
00:36:51,670 --> 00:36:47,840
other interviews you may have given over

763
00:36:56,110 --> 00:36:51,680
the course of time so what do you think

764
00:36:58,030 --> 00:36:56,120
do you think that is there any now I'm

765
00:37:00,880 --> 00:36:58,040
going to bring up something else here I

766
00:37:04,330 --> 00:37:00,890
understand that the the woman of the

767
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:04,340
couple after they after they were

768
00:37:08,530 --> 00:37:06,890
abducted and some time later when there

769
00:37:13,330 --> 00:37:08,540
was still feeling the presence around

770
00:37:16,030 --> 00:37:13,340
them that a she and her husband engaged

771
00:37:20,590 --> 00:37:16,040
in normal marital activities and the

772
00:37:23,650 --> 00:37:20,600
result was a third pregnancy and that

773
00:37:27,070 --> 00:37:23,660
they felt that the they felt that the

774
00:37:30,100 --> 00:37:27,080
child was I thought she was pregnant

775
00:37:32,350 --> 00:37:30,110
before they this happened right uh I

776
00:37:34,210 --> 00:37:32,360
don't think so oh yeah actually you're

777
00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:34,220
correct it was after it was actor it was

778
00:37:40,780 --> 00:37:36,560
after it happened and um you know I

779
00:37:43,500 --> 00:37:40,790
would wonder from you have you kept up

780
00:37:48,220 --> 00:37:43,510
with these people after all this was

781
00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:48,230
1989 and maybe 1991 then of this

782
00:37:57,780 --> 00:37:51,250
the story sort of unfolded correct yes

783
00:38:02,070 --> 00:37:57,790
they had a what happened was they

784
00:38:06,790 --> 00:38:02,080
experienced a number of odd things and

785
00:38:08,830 --> 00:38:06,800
for example they awakened in the middle

786
00:38:11,620 --> 00:38:08,840
of the night to every creak and sound in

787
00:38:15,790 --> 00:38:11,630
their house okay and now one time there

788
00:38:18,010 --> 00:38:15,800
their four-year-old was screaming so

789
00:38:23,109 --> 00:38:18,020
they ran into his room and he was

790
00:38:27,150 --> 00:38:23,119
spinning like a top oh and the mother of

791
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:27,160
course goes in and and and hold him and

792
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:30,170
comfort him and they are about to go

793
00:38:36,910 --> 00:38:32,810
back to bed and the kid says don't go

794
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:36,920
don't go desperately and the mother says

795
00:38:43,930 --> 00:38:39,650
why it's just because when you leave the

796
00:38:48,010 --> 00:38:43,940
monsters with the red eyes come so they

797
00:38:51,070 --> 00:38:48,020
had what dr. vittone talked about is

798
00:38:53,890 --> 00:38:51,080
sort of post-traumatic stress now that's

799
00:38:55,930 --> 00:38:53,900
a very specific instance but everything

800
00:39:01,810 --> 00:38:55,940
you know they always felt like they were

801
00:39:06,930 --> 00:39:01,820
watched after this and so Elise who was

802
00:39:10,060 --> 00:39:06,940
a a a Mormon but not a devout Mormon and

803
00:39:13,210 --> 00:39:10,070
Tom was not religious you know to any

804
00:39:16,540 --> 00:39:13,220
great extent at all really I think were

805
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:16,550
flown into religion as a kind of

806
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:21,410
sanctuary and moved to a Utah Salt Lake

807
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:23,210
City where they became devout Mormons

808
00:39:30,700 --> 00:39:25,450
and active members of the church for

809
00:39:32,950 --> 00:39:30,710
quite some long time and at this point

810
00:39:35,410 --> 00:39:32,960
they have other children a number of

811
00:39:37,990 --> 00:39:35,420
children they're not so affiliated with

812
00:39:40,300 --> 00:39:38,000
the church as they had been for a number

813
00:39:43,990 --> 00:39:40,310
of years now they're not active members

814
00:39:46,450 --> 00:39:44,000
but this really just through their whole

815
00:39:49,420 --> 00:39:46,460
life for loop the little girl who was

816
00:39:52,570 --> 00:39:49,430
conceived directly after the the

817
00:39:55,270 --> 00:39:52,580
abduction is she for all intents and

818
00:39:59,109 --> 00:39:55,280
purposes normal does she is she psychic

819
00:39:59,849 --> 00:39:59,119
is she um III don't know and by the way

820
00:40:02,700 --> 00:39:59,859
they

821
00:40:06,690 --> 00:40:02,710
not not discussed that with their

822
00:40:09,839 --> 00:40:06,700
youngest children I see I see um so um

823
00:40:12,839 --> 00:40:09,849
basically I take it wrong that you're

824
00:40:17,039 --> 00:40:12,849
not a Mormon is that is that there okay

825
00:40:21,630 --> 00:40:17,049
I'm not a Mormon either but it with all

826
00:40:26,579 --> 00:40:21,640
due respect the angel Moroni promised

827
00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:26,589
Joseph Smith that every devout Mormon

828
00:40:33,839 --> 00:40:30,730
would be given a planet now I'm going to

829
00:40:35,759 --> 00:40:33,849
make it a you know a sort of a general

830
00:40:37,319 --> 00:40:35,769
guess that this was around eighteen

831
00:40:40,589 --> 00:40:37,329
sixty it could have been a little bit

832
00:40:42,450 --> 00:40:40,599
aight later up in New York State Joseph

833
00:40:44,609 --> 00:40:42,460
Smith found that the order of Mormons

834
00:40:49,049 --> 00:40:44,619
because he or the church of the

835
00:40:51,930 --> 00:40:49,059
latter-day saint because he was visited

836
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:51,940
by the this angel who he called Moroni

837
00:40:57,180 --> 00:40:53,890
which is sort of an unfortunate name

838
00:41:00,420 --> 00:40:57,190
yeah I you know try to respect

839
00:41:03,329 --> 00:41:00,430
everybody's beliefs and he purportedly

840
00:41:05,309 --> 00:41:03,339
was given these tablets of gold which he

841
00:41:09,210 --> 00:41:05,319
then buried and the promise was that

842
00:41:13,380 --> 00:41:09,220
every faithful Mormon upon death would

843
00:41:17,569 --> 00:41:13,390
be given a planet of their own um now I

844
00:41:20,519 --> 00:41:17,579
just wonder I mean that's it seems um

845
00:41:24,059 --> 00:41:20,529
uncanny in a certain sense because at

846
00:41:26,220 --> 00:41:24,069
the time of Joseph Smith you know

847
00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:26,230
probably only five planets were known

848
00:41:32,339 --> 00:41:30,730
about and obviously immediately

849
00:41:34,349 --> 00:41:32,349
thereafter there were a couple hundred

850
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:34,359
Mormons heading out for salt lake city

851
00:41:40,499 --> 00:41:37,450
and so even then the idea of more

852
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:40,509
planets then were known at the time is

853
00:41:48,539 --> 00:41:43,210
sort of a given to the Mormons do you

854
00:41:52,519 --> 00:41:48,549
think that this has any impression upon

855
00:41:54,749 --> 00:41:52,529
their experience you know I I you know

856
00:41:57,809 --> 00:41:54,759
because you were so eloquent in your

857
00:42:00,720 --> 00:41:57,819
explanation and I would like to say yes

858
00:42:04,140 --> 00:42:00,730
but no I don't think so i think that i

859
00:42:08,039 --> 00:42:04,150
think that Elise was a casual you know

860
00:42:10,650 --> 00:42:08,049
casual mormon and that by that i mean i

861
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:10,660
don't know that she went to church all

862
00:42:17,430 --> 00:42:14,010
the time and the man

863
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:17,440
tom is a football player he's a regular

864
00:42:23,430 --> 00:42:20,490
guy and not uh you know he's you know

865
00:42:25,770 --> 00:42:23,440
and they were drinking Chardonnay yeah

866
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:25,780
this [\h__\h] is not this just was not

867
00:42:31,380 --> 00:42:28,450
really i don't think a major element of

868
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:31,390
their life until afterward and I think

869
00:42:35,700 --> 00:42:33,610
really like a lot of people if they

870
00:42:37,770 --> 00:42:35,710
suffer let's just say some a horrible

871
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:37,780
thing where their child dies in the

872
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:40,090
young age you know the young parents and

873
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:42,610
their kid gets hit by a car you find

874
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:44,650
that oftentimes people that go through a

875
00:42:49,380 --> 00:42:47,530
trauma like that wind up becoming very

876
00:42:53,220 --> 00:42:49,390
religious at least for a period of time

877
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:53,230
because it gives them super yes i would

878
00:42:59,970 --> 00:42:56,890
say i would say that that that that is

879
00:43:01,410 --> 00:42:59,980
more the story in terms of prob then

880
00:43:05,460 --> 00:43:01,420
going to religion and i would say that

881
00:43:07,170 --> 00:43:05,470
if if she was Catholic she would throw

882
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:07,180
herself into the bosom of the Catholic

883
00:43:11,820 --> 00:43:09,010
Church or if she was a Lutheran

884
00:43:15,300 --> 00:43:11,830
yesterday yeah yes absolutely right it

885
00:43:19,310 --> 00:43:15,310
was one following the other I think it

886
00:43:21,990 --> 00:43:19,320
was the event driving them to write some

887
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:22,000
sanctuary I just found it to be an

888
00:43:28,020 --> 00:43:25,810
interesting musing let's get that way

889
00:43:30,420 --> 00:43:28,030
knowing what I do about the Mormon

890
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:30,430
Church which is not you know the Church

891
00:43:34,140 --> 00:43:32,050
of the latter-day Saint which I'm not

892
00:43:36,420 --> 00:43:34,150
really a hundred percent conversant on

893
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:36,430
but I've I've read a little bit about it

894
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:38,770
for two reasons and i'm going to share

895
00:43:43,290 --> 00:43:40,210
those right now and you know you can

896
00:43:47,850 --> 00:43:43,300
feel free to make a comment on it in in

897
00:43:52,140 --> 00:43:47,860
the looking at portal areas which the

898
00:43:59,700 --> 00:43:52,150
area of southern california into utah in

899
00:44:03,090 --> 00:43:59,710
two parts of Arizona and New Mexico is

900
00:44:06,930 --> 00:44:03,100
considered to be a portal area for of

901
00:44:10,010 --> 00:44:06,940
seeing UFOs and we've got the the ranch

902
00:44:12,660 --> 00:44:10,020
the skinwalker I didn't walk around now

903
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:12,670
and then as Ron said they had the

904
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:14,650
drawings on the case for thousands of

905
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:16,650
years absolutely and the raytheon

906
00:44:23,790 --> 00:44:19,810
corporation has a big head quarters on

907
00:44:26,070 --> 00:44:23,800
near the town in northern Arizona that I

908
00:44:27,569 --> 00:44:26,080
was just talking about hopefully no well

909
00:44:30,150 --> 00:44:27,579
no it's it's right in northern

910
00:44:33,839 --> 00:44:30,160
Arizona its has been considered by many

911
00:44:35,759 --> 00:44:33,849
to be there because of its portal now

912
00:44:38,009 --> 00:44:35,769
these are conspiracy people and you know

913
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:38,019
you might be true may not be true but

914
00:44:43,829 --> 00:44:40,170
then you've got upstate New York where

915
00:44:48,690 --> 00:44:43,839
we had here the the Hudson Valley

916
00:44:51,839 --> 00:44:48,700
sightings and where Joseph Smith I saw

917
00:44:56,339 --> 00:44:51,849
the angel which is also within a such a

918
00:45:00,120 --> 00:44:56,349
short space from where the Fox sisters

919
00:45:03,599 --> 00:45:00,130
the Fox sisters who ushered in the Grand

920
00:45:07,199 --> 00:45:03,609
age of American spiritualism with their

921
00:45:09,150 --> 00:45:07,209
rapping on the on the the table that you

922
00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:09,160
know too are you familiar with American

923
00:45:16,769 --> 00:45:13,920
spiritualism run yeah yeah and so the

924
00:45:20,549 --> 00:45:16,779
founder of Mormonism around the same

925
00:45:22,890 --> 00:45:20,559
time as the Fox sisters within like a 30

926
00:45:26,099 --> 00:45:22,900
mile radius they both came out of the

927
00:45:29,130 --> 00:45:26,109
same place at the same time which may

928
00:45:33,059 --> 00:45:29,140
might be a portal area it continues to

929
00:45:37,589 --> 00:45:33,069
be a place where UFOs are seen over the

930
00:45:40,529 --> 00:45:37,599
course of time as well as animals that

931
00:45:43,949 --> 00:45:40,539
are not supposedly native to the area

932
00:45:46,199 --> 00:45:43,959
like the Cougars in the any upstate

933
00:45:48,209 --> 00:45:46,209
areas are animals to what and bizarre

934
00:45:50,579 --> 00:45:48,219
animals and just like people claim to

935
00:45:52,199 --> 00:45:50,589
see little dinosaurs in the Mojave

936
00:45:55,650 --> 00:45:52,209
Desert and I don't know about these

937
00:45:57,599 --> 00:45:55,660
things but so I throw that out there but

938
00:45:59,400 --> 00:45:57,609
those portals are also described by the

939
00:46:02,489 --> 00:45:59,410
native people yes a Native American

940
00:46:05,069 --> 00:46:02,499
certainly were a very adept at nature

941
00:46:07,499 --> 00:46:05,079
and we're very observant and would

942
00:46:11,939 --> 00:46:07,509
report these things and the interesting

943
00:46:15,509 --> 00:46:11,949
fact of the matter is that um the in all

944
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:15,519
of the Abrahamic religions um and to a

945
00:46:20,910 --> 00:46:18,130
lesser extent I suppose the the the

946
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:20,920
Buddha SAT under the Bodhi tree and and

947
00:46:27,299 --> 00:46:24,130
and entities came to him but leaving him

948
00:46:30,930 --> 00:46:27,309
aside for the moment of these sightings

949
00:46:34,079 --> 00:46:30,940
of angels inside caves coming to people

950
00:46:36,539 --> 00:46:34,089
coming to Muhammad in the cave coming to

951
00:46:39,089 --> 00:46:36,549
Mary and Elizabeth to tell them that

952
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:39,099
they were pregnant um there are these

953
00:46:44,490 --> 00:46:41,050
messengers that could

954
00:46:49,110 --> 00:46:44,500
very well be seen by a different kind of

955
00:46:52,890 --> 00:46:49,120
I as being alien visitors or the others

956
00:46:55,020 --> 00:46:52,900
right so um but then it comes back okay

957
00:46:57,420 --> 00:46:55,030
so they visit they influence but then

958
00:47:00,060 --> 00:46:57,430
why don't they tell us who they are and

959
00:47:01,980 --> 00:47:00,070
sometimes they do and again it's just

960
00:47:03,990 --> 00:47:01,990
unbelievable so you just think you're

961
00:47:07,050 --> 00:47:04,000
making it up in your own mind also they

962
00:47:09,830 --> 00:47:07,060
told the contactees um you know in the

963
00:47:13,710 --> 00:47:09,840
early to mid 50s the people that were

964
00:47:18,630 --> 00:47:13,720
contactees George Adamski and those

965
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:18,640
folks at Truman bathroom and the who

966
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:20,530
were out in the desert and and had

967
00:47:25,140 --> 00:47:23,050
complications in the desert probably not

968
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:25,150
quite out as far as the Mojave but

969
00:47:31,140 --> 00:47:27,970
Southern California they told them they

970
00:47:34,830 --> 00:47:31,150
were from Venus and now these people are

971
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:34,840
often mocked um and that they did

972
00:47:41,850 --> 00:47:40,000
perhaps fabricate some of what they said

973
00:47:43,770 --> 00:47:41,860
they saw embroidered it a little bit cuz

974
00:47:44,940 --> 00:47:43,780
once you have an experience sometimes

975
00:47:47,610 --> 00:47:44,950
it's nice to say you had another

976
00:47:49,650 --> 00:47:47,620
experience to keep the publicity or the

977
00:47:51,390 --> 00:47:49,660
interest going I'm not accusing them of

978
00:47:54,030 --> 00:47:51,400
anything I don't know what happened to

979
00:47:56,820 --> 00:47:54,040
them that Truman bathroom and and and

980
00:47:58,800 --> 00:47:56,830
George Adamski and several others but

981
00:48:03,090 --> 00:47:58,810
it's just it's just a very very

982
00:48:05,310 --> 00:48:03,100
interesting web that can be seen if we

983
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:05,320
put these things a lot of these things

984
00:48:09,630 --> 00:48:07,570
together and certainly this book is a

985
00:48:11,940 --> 00:48:09,640
fantastic i was just going to say if you

986
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:11,950
want to actually read about a real one

987
00:48:18,180 --> 00:48:14,410
it's the mojave instable javi incident

988
00:48:21,510 --> 00:48:18,190
by ron Felber and it's available on

989
00:48:25,890 --> 00:48:21,520
Amazon I'm I'm guessing it's yeah I

990
00:48:28,530 --> 00:48:25,900
don't are critics alone just be sure

991
00:48:30,300 --> 00:48:28,540
about the spirituality here's a section

992
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:30,310
of transcript and I'm interested in what

993
00:48:35,010 --> 00:48:33,610
you think okay so at least why do you

994
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:35,020
think there are things you don't want to

995
00:48:38,580 --> 00:48:37,210
remember I don't know is there something

996
00:48:40,980 --> 00:48:38,590
preventing you from sharing what you

997
00:48:42,690 --> 00:48:40,990
know I can't tell you if these days are

998
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:42,700
in contact with you tell me what you

999
00:48:49,050 --> 00:48:45,610
know about them God created our world in

1000
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:49,060
His image but not theirs Bob or any of

1001
00:48:53,610 --> 00:48:51,130
the others haha are the many different

1002
00:48:54,740 --> 00:48:53,620
kinds of beings yes different ones

1003
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:54,750
different hybrid

1004
00:48:59,400 --> 00:48:57,010
when do you think this communication

1005
00:49:02,610 --> 00:48:59,410
will happen between the aliens and

1006
00:49:05,820 --> 00:49:02,620
humans I don't know in my lifetime how

1007
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:05,830
long will you live in a normal man's

1008
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:10,330
lifetime our children's hmm are we

1009
00:49:16,890 --> 00:49:14,050
watched as a population regularly yes by

1010
00:49:19,260 --> 00:49:16,900
many different kinds of beings sent on

1011
00:49:21,570 --> 00:49:19,270
missions from the one supreme she said

1012
00:49:24,180 --> 00:49:21,580
finishing my set huh what do you mean

1013
00:49:26,190 --> 00:49:24,190
there's one Supreme Being that controls

1014
00:49:28,100 --> 00:49:26,200
all of them he sends missions here

1015
00:49:31,590 --> 00:49:28,110
they're not here of their own accord

1016
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:31,600
this is like a president or like a god

1017
00:49:37,410 --> 00:49:35,290
she responded directly hmm what else do

1018
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:37,420
you know about the one supreme the

1019
00:49:41,870 --> 00:49:39,490
beings could care less if they were here

1020
00:49:44,190 --> 00:49:41,880
or not they're just following orders

1021
00:49:46,650 --> 00:49:44,200
where do I take this from here I'm

1022
00:49:49,530 --> 00:49:46,660
wondering you talked about the universe

1023
00:49:52,140 --> 00:49:49,540
and matter earlier you said our universe

1024
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:52,150
ends where there's begins she finishes

1025
00:49:57,300 --> 00:49:54,490
our universe ends when it stops

1026
00:50:00,210 --> 00:49:57,310
mattering to us and starts mattering to

1027
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:00,220
them what does that mean I don't know

1028
00:50:05,310 --> 00:50:02,890
the missions these aliens are on are

1029
00:50:07,890 --> 00:50:05,320
they friendly or unfriendly they're

1030
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:07,900
neutral they could care less what does

1031
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:10,930
the one supreme one for all the galaxies

1032
00:50:16,740 --> 00:50:13,570
to live harmoniously together do we have

1033
00:50:19,380 --> 00:50:16,750
a separate God from the one supreme know

1034
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:19,390
what else do you know about this entity

1035
00:50:26,010 --> 00:50:22,210
is it a being like the others read the

1036
00:50:28,950 --> 00:50:26,020
Bible hmm Wow what would you make of

1037
00:50:31,110 --> 00:50:28,960
that Wow I tell you I I could look at it

1038
00:50:33,300 --> 00:50:31,120
two different ways run I could really

1039
00:50:38,220 --> 00:50:33,310
look at it two different ways one way

1040
00:50:41,220 --> 00:50:38,230
one could take it as it's spoken and I

1041
00:50:44,610 --> 00:50:41,230
have no doubt that your witnesses you

1042
00:50:47,340 --> 00:50:44,620
know took it like it was spoken on the

1043
00:50:50,370 --> 00:50:47,350
other hand I could look at it and go in

1044
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:50,380
kate's route where she mentions that

1045
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:53,890
there is a theory and it's been

1046
00:51:01,620 --> 00:50:57,010
promulgated by several UFO researchers

1047
00:51:04,830 --> 00:51:01,630
who have you know with reasonably well

1048
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:04,840
thought about ufologists that on the

1049
00:51:11,580 --> 00:51:08,410
greys are mechanical beings

1050
00:51:14,610 --> 00:51:11,590
and for them it could be considered that

1051
00:51:16,590 --> 00:51:14,620
the one supreme is their maker in other

1052
00:51:22,830 --> 00:51:16,600
words like the person who made the first

1053
00:51:25,650 --> 00:51:22,840
computer like that that hello let's

1054
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:25,660
there goes the one supreme yeah you're

1055
00:51:34,650 --> 00:51:31,290
getting cold wrong but that it could be

1056
00:51:36,990 --> 00:51:34,660
such a thing as as the maker of the

1057
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:37,000
computer and that the one supreme could

1058
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:39,370
be like I forgive me I'm not a real star

1059
00:51:43,890 --> 00:51:41,530
trekky and but the Borg is that with the

1060
00:51:46,590 --> 00:51:43,900
Borg was well not really not really okay

1061
00:51:50,490 --> 00:51:46,600
but anyway but but like this computer

1062
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:50,500
that created that somebody had suggested

1063
00:51:54,540 --> 00:51:53,290
that a way to explore the universe for

1064
00:51:57,450 --> 00:51:54,550
human beings who were flesh-and-blood

1065
00:51:59,730 --> 00:51:57,460
and have limited life spans would be to

1066
00:52:03,030 --> 00:51:59,740
create these self-replicating robots

1067
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:03,040
that would go well yeah perhaps that

1068
00:52:08,580 --> 00:52:06,370
that's that's probably it and so it

1069
00:52:11,580 --> 00:52:08,590
could be something like that but then

1070
00:52:15,300 --> 00:52:11,590
the other part that is kind of chilling

1071
00:52:18,450 --> 00:52:15,310
is the end when when when the world star

1072
00:52:21,810 --> 00:52:18,460
starts mattering less to us and more to

1073
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:21,820
them that is sort of um that brings me

1074
00:52:25,890 --> 00:52:23,770
into david jacobs territory like a

1075
00:52:28,530 --> 00:52:25,900
thread almost isn't it yeah it is yeah

1076
00:52:31,290 --> 00:52:28,540
like are there are there aliens walking

1077
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:31,300
amongst us are their hybrids walking

1078
00:52:36,630 --> 00:52:33,850
amongst us David Jacob says yes I say

1079
00:52:40,170 --> 00:52:36,640
maybe I don't like the idea but maybe

1080
00:52:42,420 --> 00:52:40,180
and then I think about us being um kind

1081
00:52:45,240 --> 00:52:42,430
of Angry Apes with guns and I wonder if

1082
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:45,250
we deserve it but you know in a way it's

1083
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:47,410
almost like imperialist looking at

1084
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:51,610
Africa so yes you say when does Africa

1085
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:54,130
matter well Africa matters to

1086
00:52:59,790 --> 00:52:56,770
imperialists what it matters right

1087
00:53:02,820 --> 00:52:59,800
register alrighty good mmm when you need

1088
00:53:04,650 --> 00:53:02,830
that oil or we have Skynyrd away

1089
00:53:08,550 --> 00:53:04,660
whatever horrible thing right now we

1090
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:08,560
don't write when we do count on it we'll

1091
00:53:14,490 --> 00:53:11,770
be back you know yeah yeah that that

1092
00:53:16,530 --> 00:53:14,500
actually is a nice analogy because it

1093
00:53:19,620 --> 00:53:16,540
sort of brings two cultures into clash

1094
00:53:21,660 --> 00:53:19,630
and that's what may be going on here I

1095
00:53:22,380 --> 00:53:21,670
don't know what they'd want I always

1096
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:22,390
think that

1097
00:53:26,819 --> 00:53:24,490
this planet happens to be extremely

1098
00:53:29,579 --> 00:53:26,829
fortunate as being temperate in many

1099
00:53:31,769 --> 00:53:29,589
ways well the water part in many ways

1100
00:53:33,809 --> 00:53:31,779
and I don't know that there are that

1101
00:53:35,819 --> 00:53:33,819
many you know just you know an

1102
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:35,829
anthropologist have gotten into some lot

1103
00:53:40,730 --> 00:53:38,410
of different ways but many planets are

1104
00:53:43,829 --> 00:53:40,740
conducive to developing a

1105
00:53:45,509 --> 00:53:43,839
technologically capable being just that

1106
00:53:49,079 --> 00:53:45,519
there are harsh conditions and blah blah

1107
00:53:51,569 --> 00:53:49,089
and stuff and so I think we may actually

1108
00:53:54,839 --> 00:53:51,579
be something that sticks out on a lot of

1109
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:54,849
people's maps weather for the area we

1110
00:53:59,880 --> 00:53:57,010
may be like in other words for this

1111
00:54:02,549 --> 00:53:59,890
quadrant so to speak we may be but when

1112
00:54:05,009 --> 00:54:02,559
you consider trillions of planets around

1113
00:54:08,039 --> 00:54:05,019
trillions of stars around millions of

1114
00:54:10,140 --> 00:54:08,049
galaxies mmm I'm not sure what in the

1115
00:54:11,549 --> 00:54:10,150
quadrant you could be absolutely all

1116
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:11,559
right just that it took four billion

1117
00:54:16,049 --> 00:54:13,690
years as far as we know for life to do

1118
00:54:19,650 --> 00:54:16,059
it the technological life to develop

1119
00:54:21,839 --> 00:54:19,660
here as far as we know I end up with a

1120
00:54:24,150 --> 00:54:21,849
quote from Norman Mailer for you oh

1121
00:54:26,009 --> 00:54:24,160
great yeah I got it really here he

1122
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:26,019
captures a little bit of what you know

1123
00:54:31,650 --> 00:54:28,890
we're talking about okay says the devil

1124
00:54:34,740 --> 00:54:31,660
might be a present from another universe

1125
00:54:37,499 --> 00:54:34,750
haha we might be fighting an implacable

1126
00:54:40,559 --> 00:54:37,509
enemy out there and the devil might be

1127
00:54:43,140 --> 00:54:40,569
the agent of the implacable enemy with

1128
00:54:47,519 --> 00:54:43,150
God is the tired general fighting that

1129
00:54:50,519 --> 00:54:47,529
war with his own agents of hope oh man

1130
00:54:53,579 --> 00:54:50,529
that is that is very chilling it's also

1131
00:54:59,039 --> 00:54:53,589
depressing god yes and I mean you know

1132
00:55:01,710 --> 00:54:59,049
win the fight as as an experiencer of a

1133
00:55:05,339 --> 00:55:01,720
different what appeared to me to be a

1134
00:55:09,720 --> 00:55:05,349
different form of entity but not an

1135
00:55:13,740 --> 00:55:09,730
unknown form of entity basically a you

1136
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:13,750
know at all Arian looking being but I

1137
00:55:17,460 --> 00:55:15,490
have no way of knowing whether this was

1138
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:17,470
a projection on my subconscious or

1139
00:55:23,279 --> 00:55:20,410
whether the being was actually had that

1140
00:55:26,819 --> 00:55:23,289
physicality so this is this is the

1141
00:55:30,269 --> 00:55:26,829
problem when you're dealing with someone

1142
00:55:34,890 --> 00:55:30,279
so much smarter is that then you that it

1143
00:55:36,300 --> 00:55:34,900
makes you seem like a flea by comparison

1144
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:36,310
well you

1145
00:55:40,290 --> 00:55:37,810
look at a lot of these things in two

1146
00:55:42,630 --> 00:55:40,300
ways so let's take this this story you

1147
00:55:46,170 --> 00:55:42,640
can say that that these beings grew

1148
00:55:50,220 --> 00:55:46,180
these anthropomorphised characters of

1149
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:50,230
God an angel you know a demon etc out of

1150
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:53,290
their heads the glam lines etc because

1151
00:55:58,050 --> 00:55:54,850
they were familiar and because they were

1152
00:56:00,960 --> 00:55:58,060
there and they could use them to evoke

1153
00:56:02,790 --> 00:56:00,970
the emotions they wanted to draw out

1154
00:56:05,430 --> 00:56:02,800
just they were familiar and they were

1155
00:56:07,860 --> 00:56:05,440
scary or they were happy or whatever

1156
00:56:11,250 --> 00:56:07,870
they were or comforting on the other

1157
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:11,260
hand maybe it was real huh on the other

1158
00:56:16,700 --> 00:56:14,170
hand may be exactly what they saw was

1159
00:56:19,950 --> 00:56:16,710
literal and exactly the way it was and

1160
00:56:23,460 --> 00:56:19,960
that's really the question as I see it

1161
00:56:25,830 --> 00:56:23,470
but but as I said before this is quite

1162
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:25,840
unlike the glimpses you see into things

1163
00:56:31,710 --> 00:56:29,170
this is a full blown yes universe

1164
00:56:35,940 --> 00:56:31,720
exposed for a very short period of time

1165
00:56:40,230 --> 00:56:35,950
no before we end I want to bring up one

1166
00:56:42,240 --> 00:56:40,240
thing I assume and I I fairly well know

1167
00:56:45,930 --> 00:56:42,250
this that you change the names of the

1168
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:45,940
people yes and you had mentioned that

1169
00:56:51,780 --> 00:56:47,890
they have children who don't know about

1170
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:51,790
this so that you know there we have no

1171
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:53,890
real reason to bring up their actual

1172
00:56:58,110 --> 00:56:56,170
names or anything else but can I assume

1173
00:57:00,030 --> 00:56:58,120
that you've also fallen out of touch

1174
00:57:01,620 --> 00:57:00,040
with them for whatever reason and you

1175
00:57:05,490 --> 00:57:01,630
don't know the outcome with them right

1176
00:57:06,870 --> 00:57:05,500
now no actually I can't say that we're

1177
00:57:09,150 --> 00:57:06,880
closed for anything like that but we've

1178
00:57:12,060 --> 00:57:09,160
been in contact with one another as

1179
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:12,070
recently as maybe three weeks ago it's

1180
00:57:18,420 --> 00:57:15,610
just something that in there there you

1181
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:18,430
know this is the way it is if you if you

1182
00:57:22,950 --> 00:57:20,530
meet somebody in a bar and they tell you

1183
00:57:25,140 --> 00:57:22,960
about the war experiences and their

1184
00:57:28,130 --> 00:57:25,150
heroics they were never in really a

1185
00:57:32,820 --> 00:57:28,140
battle people that were really in

1186
00:57:35,070 --> 00:57:32,830
gruesome war like scenarios don't talk

1187
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:35,080
about it because they don't want to talk

1188
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:37,570
about it that's what these people are

1189
00:57:44,900 --> 00:57:41,050
like ah ok they just want to forget it

1190
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:44,910
ever had these experiences tend to be

1191
00:57:50,820 --> 00:57:48,490
multi-generational though run I mean

1192
00:57:53,460 --> 00:57:50,830
and certainly the one son seems to have

1193
00:57:56,100 --> 00:57:53,470
been affected too I wonder if their

1194
00:57:59,760 --> 00:57:56,110
parents had had experiences like that or

1195
00:58:02,940 --> 00:57:59,770
if well is the top Tom Gifford when he

1196
00:58:06,270 --> 00:58:02,950
was eight mm-hmm was fishing with a

1197
00:58:07,770 --> 00:58:06,280
friend and had just this just a UFO

1198
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:07,780
xperia they're fishing they saw this

1199
00:58:12,030 --> 00:58:09,850
object they ran away from the object

1200
00:58:14,070 --> 00:58:12,040
they felt like the object was following

1201
00:58:18,810 --> 00:58:14,080
them and they had any had two missing

1202
00:58:22,410 --> 00:58:18,820
time huh so let's say 30 25 years later

1203
00:58:24,780 --> 00:58:22,420
or so when this happened this like drove

1204
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:24,790
this back in his head like you know like

1205
00:58:30,690 --> 00:58:28,690
it was yes so well then there are no

1206
00:58:33,270 --> 00:58:30,700
coincidences I mean as far as the

1207
00:58:35,850 --> 00:58:33,280
campground being closed to further Gabby

1208
00:58:38,430 --> 00:58:35,860
debt you know you put up a tent I mean

1209
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:38,440
so one more tent comes in you know that

1210
00:58:44,370 --> 00:58:41,050
seems a little I know a little odd to

1211
00:58:47,190 --> 00:58:44,380
the whole day seems in a way to a

1212
00:58:49,140 --> 00:58:47,200
business that scenario yes yes I want to

1213
00:58:51,270 --> 00:58:49,150
just bring up one other thing because

1214
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:51,280
you had mentioned this a few minutes ago

1215
00:58:57,570 --> 00:58:53,770
Ron and that people don't want to

1216
00:59:00,120 --> 00:58:57,580
discuss it and I want to just tell you

1217
00:59:03,030 --> 00:59:00,130
something that's been happening of the

1218
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:03,040
past up I would say 10 years and this

1219
00:59:09,630 --> 00:59:06,690
happened for Travis Walton as well and

1220
00:59:11,340 --> 00:59:09,640
to a much lesser extent because I didn't

1221
00:59:13,710 --> 00:59:11,350
have anywhere near as dramatic

1222
00:59:16,530 --> 00:59:13,720
experiences as the couple that you're

1223
00:59:19,349 --> 00:59:16,540
speaking about Nora Travis Walton but

1224
00:59:21,810 --> 00:59:19,359
people go through a period of time where

1225
00:59:24,690 --> 00:59:21,820
they bury this and then at some later

1226
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:24,700
point and for me it was around 10 years

1227
00:59:29,490 --> 00:59:26,530
ago when it was like somebody just

1228
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:29,500
turned a light switch on and i had to

1229
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:32,410
get more and more involved in the you

1230
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:35,050
valla g area and i happen to know a

1231
00:59:40,380 --> 00:59:37,810
number of men all of whom are

1232
00:59:42,950 --> 00:59:40,390
approximately in their late 50s shall we

1233
00:59:46,020 --> 00:59:42,960
say and this happened for them as well

1234
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:46,030
that there was a point in time when they

1235
00:59:51,420 --> 00:59:48,730
just had to get re-involved and in terms

1236
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:51,430
of Travis Walton he he did write his

1237
00:59:55,980 --> 00:59:53,770
book early on and they did make a movie

1238
00:59:57,630 --> 00:59:55,990
of it but then he went underground for a

1239
00:59:59,700 --> 00:59:57,640
number of years and it's only been in

1240
01:00:02,099 --> 00:59:59,710
the last what would you say Kate five

1241
01:00:04,380 --> 01:00:02,109
years ago that he came back out

1242
01:00:08,069 --> 01:00:04,390
and was prepared to start talking about

1243
01:00:10,950 --> 01:00:08,079
it um I myself are you know am still

1244
01:00:15,029 --> 01:00:10,960
traumatized by my much lesser experience

1245
01:00:17,430 --> 01:00:15,039
to the to the extent that i often feel

1246
01:00:20,549 --> 01:00:17,440
frightened and watched and don't care to

1247
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:20,559
be alone in in circumstances to and i'm

1248
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:23,170
a very you know 2 feet on the ground

1249
01:00:30,109 --> 01:00:26,650
sort of a person very practical i drive

1250
01:00:32,759 --> 01:00:30,119
a car you know I do have no particular

1251
01:00:35,670 --> 01:00:32,769
great fears in the regular world but

1252
01:00:39,180 --> 01:00:35,680
when it comes to this it's like it's

1253
01:00:42,150 --> 01:00:39,190
it's a fear that you can you can explain

1254
01:00:45,359 --> 01:00:42,160
because it's not a mental fear it's a

1255
01:00:47,970 --> 01:00:45,369
biological fear and we had spoken to a

1256
01:00:51,269 --> 01:00:47,980
guest at one point another woman who

1257
01:00:54,059 --> 01:00:51,279
spoke to this point as well that it's

1258
01:00:56,069 --> 01:00:54,069
it's it's Tara its raw Tara it's not

1259
01:00:58,380 --> 01:00:56,079
like a psychological fear like i'm a

1260
01:01:00,539 --> 01:00:58,390
i-i-i am afraid of snakes you know i am

1261
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:00,549
literally afraid of snakes now I don't

1262
01:01:04,140 --> 01:01:01,930
go around thinking about them i don't

1263
01:01:06,089 --> 01:01:04,150
have a morbid obsession with them but

1264
01:01:09,660 --> 01:01:06,099
i'm afraid of snakes it's not that kind

1265
01:01:11,910 --> 01:01:09,670
of fear no it's a raw biological terror

1266
01:01:14,489 --> 01:01:11,920
that if someone hasn't had it they don't

1267
01:01:19,019 --> 01:01:14,499
know what it's like i I couldn't agree

1268
01:01:20,849 --> 01:01:19,029
more so um I guess our time has kind of

1269
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:20,859
drawn to a close and we would like to

1270
01:01:27,059 --> 01:01:23,650
thank you very much yes and thank you

1271
01:01:30,299 --> 01:01:27,069
for for this book mohave incident again

1272
01:01:33,749 --> 01:01:30,309
I I would caution the listener do not

1273
01:01:37,079 --> 01:01:33,759
read this alone oh no seriously it

1274
01:01:38,910 --> 01:01:37,089
sounded so scared there was also you

1275
01:01:40,739 --> 01:01:38,920
know what it is you can read scary

1276
01:01:43,170 --> 01:01:40,749
things like I mean like the vampires and

1277
01:01:44,430 --> 01:01:43,180
stuff and they're scary but who cares

1278
01:01:47,039 --> 01:01:44,440
you know I don't stay up at night

1279
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:47,049
worrying about vampires but something

1280
01:01:52,349 --> 01:01:48,970
like this really had a ring of truth to

1281
01:01:55,890 --> 01:01:52,359
it I know I know that's what captured me

1282
01:01:58,769 --> 01:01:55,900
yeah is the reactions yeah words they're

1283
01:02:00,630 --> 01:01:58,779
so human yeah and and you know it

1284
01:02:02,670 --> 01:02:00,640
happened to them and they're just you

1285
01:02:04,499 --> 01:02:02,680
know the why don't say run of the but

1286
01:02:06,150 --> 01:02:04,509
you know the average people and so

1287
01:02:08,370 --> 01:02:06,160
what's to say it couldn't happen to you

1288
01:02:10,319 --> 01:02:08,380
admitting the wrong Americans except I

1289
01:02:13,229 --> 01:02:10,329
can't infer she can I ask one just one

1290
01:02:15,990 --> 01:02:13,239
small favor sure of the people that do

1291
01:02:20,550 --> 01:02:17,790
they could post something on either

1292
01:02:22,380 --> 01:02:20,560
amazon or barnes & noble you know about

1293
01:02:24,180 --> 01:02:22,390
the book a review of the book what they

1294
01:02:26,340 --> 01:02:24,190
think that would be really very helpful

1295
01:02:28,890 --> 01:02:26,350
to me oh great well be happy to ask our

1296
01:02:30,630 --> 01:02:28,900
listeners to do that and likewise we

1297
01:02:34,110 --> 01:02:30,640
would like you to like us on facebook

1298
01:02:35,970 --> 01:02:34,120
and like us on our website because it

1299
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:35,980
means a lot to us as well and and hey

1300
01:02:40,590 --> 01:02:38,050
you know these are stories that need to

1301
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:40,600
be told absolutely there's changing the

1302
01:02:46,530 --> 01:02:44,170
shifting paradigms these you know what

1303
01:02:48,750 --> 01:02:46,540
is reality really this is what we want

1304
01:02:51,270 --> 01:02:48,760
to want to investigate also it's very

1305
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:51,280
difficult to write about something like

1306
01:02:56,010 --> 01:02:53,130
this and you did a great job doing it

1307
01:02:58,380 --> 01:02:56,020
now seriously it is it's it's hard to

1308
01:03:00,180 --> 01:02:58,390
pull it all together in some sort of

1309
01:03:02,790 --> 01:03:00,190
chronological order you did very well

1310
01:03:04,410 --> 01:03:02,800
it's a great i'm sorry you know so so

1311
01:03:06,810 --> 01:03:04,420
funny i was thinking about it the other

1312
01:03:10,350 --> 01:03:06,820
day so somebody sabino president reagan

1313
01:03:12,510 --> 01:03:10,360
so I a UFO Jimmy Carter reported it so

1314
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:12,520
there's no why don't know people but but

1315
01:03:16,410 --> 01:03:14,890
the Governor of Arizona recently came

1316
01:03:18,750 --> 01:03:16,420
out and said you know during the Phoenix

1317
01:03:20,730 --> 01:03:18,760
lights and he to Allied mm-hmm and that

1318
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:20,740
really he had not only seen it but he

1319
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:23,530
saw again on UFO the size of a football

1320
01:03:27,450 --> 01:03:25,330
field hovering over him and his son

1321
01:03:29,610 --> 01:03:27,460
which is like these are incredible these

1322
01:03:33,660 --> 01:03:29,620
are credible people he's are not sure

1323
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:33,670
well if they use it people in power use

1324
01:03:39,300 --> 01:03:36,130
it to denigrate those who have seen it

1325
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:39,310
often it's it's a it's a a power play

1326
01:03:44,820 --> 01:03:42,490
like the the senator who was running for

1327
01:03:47,940 --> 01:03:44,830
election for president he was running

1328
01:03:50,490 --> 01:03:47,950
back oh I guess it was eight years ago

1329
01:03:52,110 --> 01:03:50,500
what was his name hella silly guy the

1330
01:03:54,450 --> 01:03:52,120
one that they always make fun of well

1331
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:54,460
they made fun of him why because i cor

1332
01:03:59,520 --> 01:03:56,890
UFO thank you he's not a silly guy yeah

1333
01:04:01,860 --> 01:03:59,530
so no he was some other stuff yeah

1334
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:01,870
anyway a matter of opinion there are

1335
01:04:07,260 --> 01:04:05,290
other things not just that no but one

1336
01:04:08,730 --> 01:04:07,270
way or the other what else it's more and

1337
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:08,740
more i think these things are getting

1338
01:04:16,350 --> 01:04:12,850
less babe uh-huh more concrete okay less

1339
01:04:18,150 --> 01:04:16,360
less glimpses and more sustained huh and

1340
01:04:20,580 --> 01:04:18,160
i think it's very clear that if you look

1341
01:04:23,430 --> 01:04:20,590
at the history of this from Betty and

1342
01:04:25,650 --> 01:04:23,440
Barney Hill and some flash camera of a

1343
01:04:28,059 --> 01:04:25,660
photo of you know you off alone the

1344
01:04:31,479 --> 01:04:28,069
Himalayas from the 50s

1345
01:04:36,329 --> 01:04:31,489
52 now this has really become something

1346
01:04:39,969 --> 01:04:36,339
very substantial and very much a part of

1347
01:04:43,059 --> 01:04:39,979
human human consciousness we would agree

1348
01:04:47,439 --> 01:04:43,069
yeah yeah so I just hope that we find

1349
01:04:51,099 --> 01:04:47,449
out in our lifetimes but nice maybe not

1350
01:04:56,739 --> 01:04:51,109
ever said in our children's ok I am

1351
01:05:00,099 --> 01:04:56,749
planning on living alone well I let us

1352
01:05:02,410 --> 01:05:00,109
say fare you well and we'll try to keep

1353
01:05:05,890 --> 01:05:02,420
in touch and thank you so much for being

1354
01:05:08,140 --> 01:05:05,900
on shattered reality a lot of fun thank

1355
01:05:11,819 --> 01:05:08,150
you thanks again thank you right bye-bye

1356
01:05:14,049 --> 01:05:11,829
wow that was scary for Russia that was

1357
01:05:16,180 --> 01:05:14,059
honestly if you are out there seriously

1358
01:05:18,759 --> 01:05:16,190
I'm kidding aside get this book Bobby

1359
01:05:21,549 --> 01:05:18,769
incident especially if you're interested

1360
01:05:25,870 --> 01:05:21,559
in UFOs and abductions it'll bring

1361
01:05:27,670 --> 01:05:25,880
things sort of 2a ed I think yes I i

1362
01:05:30,609 --> 01:05:27,680
would agree and write a comment on it

1363
01:05:34,029 --> 01:05:30,619
and and and like us on facebook and like

1364
01:05:37,630 --> 01:05:34,039
us on shattered reality podcast calm and

1365
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:37,640
shattered reality wordpress com look for

1366
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:41,690
our audios on youtube coming up and

1367
01:05:48,519 --> 01:05:44,650
we're ironing out some problems with

1368
01:05:51,910 --> 01:05:48,529
itunes at this moment we expect to have

1369
01:05:56,949 --> 01:05:51,920
an absolutely wonderful guest for you

1370
01:06:00,759 --> 01:05:56,959
next which is dr. tom campbell and he is

1371
01:06:04,239 --> 01:06:00,769
an actual rocket scientist for real

1372
01:06:09,430 --> 01:06:04,249
who's retired from nasa and has written

1373
01:06:12,579 --> 01:06:09,440
a book called my big toe toe being

1374
01:06:16,479 --> 01:06:12,589
capital t period capital o period

1375
01:06:19,599 --> 01:06:16,489
capital e period standing for theory of

1376
01:06:23,319 --> 01:06:19,609
everything and what you're going to hear

1377
01:06:26,109 --> 01:06:23,329
from this very learn it very kind very

1378
01:06:29,459 --> 01:06:26,119
wonderful man is going to blow your

1379
01:06:32,529 --> 01:06:29,469
socks off I i happen to know Tom

1380
01:06:35,170 --> 01:06:32,539
personally and I cannot give him high

1381
01:06:37,359 --> 01:06:35,180
enough credits for what a wonderful guy

1382
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:37,369
he is so that's what we have to look

1383
01:06:45,190 --> 01:06:41,450
forward to for our next episode

1384
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:45,200
and until then this is Kate Valentine